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Can there PLEASE be a "3 strikes you're out" rule?!!!?!?

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Forum » General Discussion » Can there PLEASE be a "3 strikes you're out" rule?!!!?!? 20 posts - page 2 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Neolexia » October 27, 2013 3:00pm | Report
Bandy wrote:
This isn't an RPG, if you didn't notice. Second of all, because it's a terrible system. Three times? What if this person disconnected due to internet problems (like me)? Sometimes a leave is completely out of someone's control, which is why Valvo has decided that it's better to let repeat offenders play together and against each other; as a sort of rehabilitation.

Offensive language? It IS an M rated game after all, this isn't a very serious thing to even be reported about. Harassment is a whole different thing, but 'offensive language' should be taken with a grain of salt. A mute might be in order for repeat offenders.

'Intentionally using Abilities to feed' is a.. complicated conviction. It's very hard to prove that the player was intentionally throwing you in a chronosphere, and that he isn't simply new to DotA or FA.


Three times being reported for feeding or intentional ability etc. NOT internet problems. Not to mention the game mods will have to oversee real reports to judge if the ban is necessary. Not just 3 random reports. Right now reporting someone does NOTHING. Low Priority as a punishment is a joke.

More Dakka wrote:

This is my first post. I'm a noob, and I have yet to play a game against humans. I HAVE played exactly 22 games against the AI, and watched about 30 hours of videos. I just finished playing Disruptor, which is, not co-incidentally, 22nd in alphabetical order. It is my intent to play all 110 heroes before I play against real humans. I am keeping elaborate statistics on my performance. I am happy to report that I am starting to kill more heroes than the number of times I am dying. I am able to increasingly get the last hit in, and my gear is generally getting better each game.

Having said this, I barely understand some of the finer points of the game, but I DO understand human nature, PvP games, and semi-random matchmaking.

For the original poster, here's your logic flaw, and it's a bad one: The game you referenced was a public game. The players, as I understand it, are generally of equal point value to you, and to each other.

What you do not understand, is the very same thing World of Tanks players don't understand, which is the same thing that many WoW players never understood.

God doesn't have a woody for you. The matchmaking system doesn't care who you are, and you have the EXACT SAME CHANCE to be on a side with four horrible players as you have as being on the opposite side, the side that won in 24 minutes.

You are almost certainly a decent player, from watching your descriptions, and I understand your frustrations. You would likely be very frustrated with me, as I am slow to recognize danger, and feed the opposing team pretty well. But I will do my best. As a 57-year old guy, my reflexes are not as fast as yours. Back in the day, when I shot hoops and played racquetball, things were different.

You play the hand you're dealt. In World of Tanks, over about 13 thousand matches, I ended up with about a 62% winning percentage, and a more than 2:1 ratio of kills vs. deaths. I was proud of that record...as it wasn't always the case. I struggle initially, just as I will struggle in this game.

I recognize that I am going to hear, "Welcome to DOTA, YOU SUCK!"

That doesn't bother me..and I certainly will not blame the totally random matchmaking system from picking on me.

Over time, the average skill of your teammates will be IDENTICAL to the average composition of my teammates. The only difference is you. Your win-loss record WILL be a reflection of your skill. It has to be.

So...where do we sit? Play your toon. If you lose more than you win, evaluate the reasons why.

The best way to evaluate your relative skill is compare your winning percentage of that specific toon against the winning percentage of that toon overall. If you're Pudge, you will do better than.. Meppo? Something like that...or Chen. Trying to think of a hero that isn't used much. Brood Mother is another one I think.

But...In the meantime, don't rip your teammates. They will totally, TOTALLY average out to ...average, over time. Statistically, that HAS to be the case. Flip a coin heads or tales a million times, half will be heads, half will be tails.

The chances of losing eight consecutive games, with a 50-50 chance of occurrence is: 1/256, or roughly 0.4%. Less than one half of one percent. Either you are an amazingly unlucky individual, or....wait for it ...

YOU SUCK!

^ +rep for you. You seem like you have some common sense and know that it's not smart to just jump into the game right away. I commend you my friend.

Neolexia


Notable (1)
Posts: 20
Steam: [N]
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Vash » October 28, 2013 8:24pm | Report
More Dakka wrote:

This is my first post. I'm a noob, and I have yet to play a game against humans. I HAVE played exactly 22 games against the AI, and watched about 30 hours of videos. I just finished playing Disruptor, which is, not co-incidentally, 22nd in alphabetical order. It is my intent to play all 110 heroes before I play against real humans. I am keeping elaborate statistics on my performance. I am happy to report that I am starting to kill more heroes than the number of times I am dying. I am able to increasingly get the last hit in, and my gear is generally getting better each game.

Having said this, I barely understand some of the finer points of the game, but I DO understand human nature, PvP games, and semi-random matchmaking.

For the original poster, here's your logic flaw, and it's a bad one: The game you referenced was a public game. The players, as I understand it, are generally of equal point value to you, and to each other.

What you do not understand, is the very same thing World of Tanks players don't understand, which is the same thing that many WoW players never understood.

God doesn't have a woody for you. The matchmaking system doesn't care who you are, and you have the EXACT SAME CHANCE to be on a side with four horrible players as you have as being on the opposite side, the side that won in 24 minutes.

You are almost certainly a decent player, from watching your descriptions, and I understand your frustrations. You would likely be very frustrated with me, as I am slow to recognize danger, and feed the opposing team pretty well. But I will do my best. As a 57-year old guy, my reflexes are not as fast as yours. Back in the day, when I shot hoops and played racquetball, things were different.

You play the hand you're dealt. In World of Tanks, over about 13 thousand matches, I ended up with about a 62% winning percentage, and a more than 2:1 ratio of kills vs. deaths. I was proud of that record...as it wasn't always the case. I struggle initially, just as I will struggle in this game.

I recognize that I am going to hear, "Welcome to DOTA, YOU SUCK!"

That doesn't bother me..and I certainly will not blame the totally random matchmaking system from picking on me.

Over time, the average skill of your teammates will be IDENTICAL to the average composition of my teammates. The only difference is you. Your win-loss record WILL be a reflection of your skill. It has to be.

So...where do we sit? Play your toon. If you lose more than you win, evaluate the reasons why.

The best way to evaluate your relative skill is compare your winning percentage of that specific toon against the winning percentage of that toon overall. If you're Pudge, you will do better than.. Meppo? Something like that...or Chen. Trying to think of a hero that isn't used much. Brood Mother is another one I think.

But...In the meantime, don't rip your teammates. They will totally, TOTALLY average out to ...average, over time. Statistically, that HAS to be the case. Flip a coin heads or tales a million times, half will be heads, half will be tails.

The chances of losing eight consecutive games, with a 50-50 chance of occurrence is: 1/256, or roughly 0.4%. Less than one half of one percent. Either you are an amazingly unlucky individual, or....wait for it ...

YOU SUCK!


This a well constructed thought, I enjoyed reading it. :) Just please bear in mind that outside factors do play a role as well. While in a perfect environment your stats may be correct, a realistic environment presents factors such as dc-ers, lag, trolls, etc., which can skew your numbers quite a bit.

I'm just putting that out there for other new players who are doing well but are experiencing losing streak.
"I'm like a hunter of peace. One who chases the elusive mayfly of love... or something like that." - Vash the Stampede

Lest we forget...

Vash


Notable (10)
Posts: 231
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unorc » October 29, 2013 5:18am | Report
Neolexia wrote:

You are paired with people the same "battle points" level as you.


Actually, there's a Matchmaking rating you don't see, that looks not just at your wins/losses but at your kills, deaths, last hits, denies, and a bunch of complicated stats that determine your skill level as a player. I hate to say it but, at early levels, there's plenty of people who you don't want on your team. But as you get into higher levels, people generally become better players and teammates. Really, low-level pubs are horrible. Just try to get better, eventually you move up through the matchmaking brackets.

It all really comes down to your skill level. So just focus on getting better, take the bad with the good, and as you grow as a player, the ratio of good games to bad games will get better. Everyone has to go through it.

Cheers

Unorc


Notable (1)
Posts: 34
Steam: UNORC
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pu12e » October 30, 2013 1:48pm | Report
The only reason that I am able to play Dota 2 is because steam does not have a permaban system.

I know it sucks when I am stuck in LP or I am unable to chat or communicate with players while I am under this communication ban, but at least I can still play dota. . .

(Thank God they allow you to ping three times per pinging cycle when you are banned) Those pings save lives. Also having the communication ban allows you to use the ingame quick chat to say things such as "Stun Now"; "Well Played"; "We Need Wards"

Also remember that denying a teammate to prevent the other team from killing that teama=mate may result in a ban.

Feeders will be Banned and Banners will be posted.

#ThisisReal
#KillSecured
#Where is the dagon lvl 6-9?

Pu12e


Notable (11)
Posts: 540
Steam: Pu12e
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by mattyg2787 » October 31, 2013 4:26pm | Report
I have no problems playing with self confessed noobs. I have an issue playing with people who
A)don't understand how to use the chat function
B)Are obviously new and won't listen to you.

I've taught a few people how to play and honestly, even with tutorials, it's not an easy game to pickup. But when people dont' want to learn, that pisses me off.
Also, Valve need to fix the mm system so I'm not teamed up with randoms with 12 hours of game time on their account. But Perma banning people for sucking at the game is bad. Abuse is one thing but being bad shouldn't be a crime.

mattyg2787


Notable (1)
Posts: 100
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by OxyJoe » November 3, 2013 11:12pm | Report
It's a casual game for some, so the argument that someone who plays badly should be struck out is annoying. It is, however, quite the drag, to be paired with inexperienced players, but I find that more often it's only unenjoyable with people who complain and use abusive language... Those really are games in which I truly desire to have it be over with, yet don't want to leave and "reduce my queue priority."

This is my first post, but I'm not that new to Dota. I played dota 1 on WC3, although it actually was not my favorite game at the time. It Was Indeed perhaps the most well constructed custom-levels, with quite an interesting balance and a gameplay that set it apart from the rifraf games, if you'll recall, which were not so bad but simply more for laughs and so on. (These included things such as Playground Wars, tower defense ad-infinitum-et-nauseum, and some I never understood, like "Real Life" or somesuch. I don't recall, but it was like role playing. I digress,

This is not coming from the point of view of a casual gamer, but I do have a better time when I realize that sometimes, it's not my team that sucks, the other team is simply playing better. When you gank well, or you use your combos, or get the right rune, etcetera, the game can be won or lost as though it were a noob game, even though the players are not.

Strategy and being a leader, or helping, are great, and yet it has to be said that it goes in one ear and out the other. The answer IS in fact to party with other players you think to be skillful or moderately competent as you put it, if you don't like having those weaknesses of a teammate who doesn't know how cooldowns work, or why IO dies when they use the shiny ability for too long, or who just plays and goes "gee, i guess I'll never be that good at this game anyway, so I'll just goof off." There are as many people who play badly as who play well, as many who laugh in regards to playing seriously as develop a strong affinity for the right and wrong kinds of moves.

It doesn't really feel like the game has 110 champions. I suppose that's because that many would seem like a crazy number of different champs to get to know and play. I've played about 200 games, and only used Sniper twice. Yet I love sniper, I can understand how he's very effective and downright difficult to fight against. There's just always more than one way to play, and in fact there's so much diversity, that's the reason it's not really about being rid of people who aren't good, rather it's about "carrying" the team's morale and directing some of the shots instead of complaining, not that I'm saying you do.

One last note about strategy: it's also different against people than the A.I. I've always felt bot-battles (going back again to games in WC3) are won with a different strategy-set completely, from human-battles. The benefit is to learn essential game mechanics and everything that actually matters. But communication, realizing "the danger" as has been mentioned, and many other nuances are nonexistent in solitary mode. So really, it's just as challenging to learn while swimming up stream and being called a noob as it is to be frustrated with bad pub games.

The computer cheats, it doesn't fumble over hotkeys or mis-click. Additionally it makes mindless mistakes like walking into battle with barely any HP. The topic though is about public games. Well, it's the only arena where you Can actually direct the attention and show people how it's supposed to be done. Against the bots, it's not really learning.

OxyJoe



Posts: 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by PiNG- » November 4, 2013 9:45pm | Report
Neolexia wrote:

Children on this game is a big problem. I think it takes at the LEAST a person between the ages of 12-14 to actually comprehend how this game works. I know ALL games have children but this is a bit tougher than that.. nor am I saying everyone who is a problem is a child.

I had lost 8 out of my last 10 pub games played. Why? not because people would pick 4 carries.. not because people fought over lanes and who should buy wards.. not because I relied on someone to have some basic knowledge of the game prior to playing.. because of COMMUNICATION and lack of knowing the players BEFOREHAND.

Let's start with knowing who you are playing with. If you're like me, someone who is not apart of a team that gets on at the same time to play BUT has various friends you've collected over your time on dota, you usually play pub games.

The answer to my problem is not "FIND A TEAM/LIKE-MINDED PLAYERS" because not everyone can wake up with a full 5-man team consisting of all the right roles.

For those of you who didn't know... in dota 1, you would join a "lobby" that would have to fill up with all 10 players before the game started. People would play server-based games that recorded your win/loss ratio, as well as your KDR & last hit/deny ratio. If you joined a game and you checked out the people in your pub matches ranks and saw that they were new, or bad.. you could just leave. You don't have that option in dota 2. You are paired with people the same "battle points" level as you. You can't see their win/loss count until AFTER you're in game (and leaving is a automatic low priority queue of course). You can't see if they last hit and/or deny a lot.. and you can't see their KDR. This is TRULY a pub game. Totally unfair and you could be sitting in a game for the next 40/60 mins of a terribly eventful game.

On the other hand, the lack of communication is a problem as well, but not as big. This isn't something "fixable" as you cannot force someone to talk to the rest of the team/use your mic. But if you're reading this, this IS a reminder that teamwork wins games, not hot-headed bloodseeker players who have gone 15-0 in the past 20 minutes. They will usually lose if the rest of the team does not work with him towards the end game.

Above all this & back to the title of this thread, player reports mean almost nothing to anyone. I report players who deserve it, whether they are feeding or so angry that the rest of the team is bad so they go AFK or anything else. This means nothing to them because there is no REAL consequences. Players do not see "low priority" as a threat. Yes, it fixed the ****py attitudes and languages but it does not fix *******s who cannot properly comprehend this game.

In almost ALL RPG games, if you're banned. YOU'RE BANNED. Why do we not have that system? Be reported & convicted of the same thing 3 times, be banned from Dota 2 or have your steam account suspended for a specific/indefinite amount of time depending on what what did. People will either stop the ******** or be banned.

tl;dr - there is NO "tl;dr"... [ Edited by Hades4u, don't be rude ]

Thoughts?


Do you know why most individuals get banned in MMORPG? It's more or less hacking or insulting an admin, but insulting another player is normal. Think of DotA2 as that, you're not going to get banned. The individual that trolls will be sent to LPQ if there are enough reports, though keep in mind this system is not perfect.

Also take in to consideration your hidden rating. From what i'm hearing is that you claim to be a decent/good individual player but you are stuck in the lower tier bracket of the game. I understand it's frustrating to lose, i too use to get extremely mad until i just accepted the fact that there are players who are utter trash and there is nothing you can do about it besides provide positive feedback or ignore them.

One solid advice that i may give you, Join a community, stack with friends or stack with a community that has a constant 5 man running. You're more than welcome to add me, i am constantly playing with a 5 stack, thought you may not get into the 5 stack since i am always in a 5 stack but there are occasions where i am short a player.

Send me a private message and ill reply with my steam id in the next 48 hrs as i have to study for school, i can provide a service of carrying you out of your current bracket and setting you in with individuals who are willing to play practically anything. ( May take about 50 games or so, this service is ofcourse free lol. All i request is just no bashing and keep a cool temper)

PiNG-


Notable (3)
Posts: 166
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by thesailorboy » November 5, 2013 5:32pm | Report
What there really should be is a ban on people if they go under a certain kda ratio. I had a really close game last night(with 4 carries on each team, the best players were the noncarries) and we lost it because we had an antimage that went 1 and 25 and 2. Its outrageous. No one should be able to just walk away from that saying they were trying.

thesailorboy



Posts: 22
Steam: NYC.Chicago
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by PiNG- » November 5, 2013 6:33pm | Report
thesailorboy wrote:

What there really should be is a ban on people if they go under a certain kda ratio. I had a really close game last night(with 4 carries on each team, the best players were the noncarries) and we lost it because we had an antimage that went 1 and 25 and 2. Its outrageous. No one should be able to just walk away from that saying they were trying.


Think logically of what you just said there, imagine how the society will feel as a whole and how it will damage the reputation of the game even more in its current state. Imagine the amount of money the would lose....

PiNG-


Notable (3)
Posts: 166
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by thesailorboy » November 5, 2013 7:16pm | Report
PiNG- wrote:



Think logically of what you just said there, imagine how the society will feel as a whole and how it will damage the reputation of the game even more in its current state. Imagine the amount of money the would lose....

I guess but they need to at least have separate lobbies that you are automatically put in if you are that bad. He shouldn't be playing with the 200 hour people but the 20 hour people.

thesailorboy



Posts: 22
Steam: NYC.Chicago

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