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early game last hitting

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Forum » Theory Crafting » early game last hitting 10 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by L0bstz0r » May 1, 2013 5:13am | Report
hey there guys

i (and i think some of u 2) have been wondering about the "right" amount of last hits in the first 10 minutes of the game. in the first 10 minutes of the game a hero (for the sake of argument lets just pretend the following is the case) usually wants an item build that looks similar to this:
Power Treads + Magic Wand + Bottle + some Regen and stats ~ 3k gold
or Ring of Aquila + Power Treads + Regen and stats ~ 3000 gold

so the advisable gold per minute would be around 300.
Lets say u have a hard lane and neither u can kill your opponent, nor he can kill you -->
The only income u get is from lane (!) creeps. No towers, no neutral creeps.

Every 30 seconds 3 melee creeps and 1 ranged creep spawn. Evey 3,5 minutes there spawns a siege-creep (since there are 2 siege creeps in 10 minutes i will just ignore them)

The avrage gold gain from a melee creep is 43 and for ranged creeps 48 respectively.
Since u want to check ur last hits at exactly 10 minutes, we ignore the creep wave that spawns at the 10th minute mark, since u get no last hits from it.

this makes 19 x 3 melee creeps and 19 x 1 ranged creeps in 10 minutes that u can get gold from.
meaning that u can get a maximum of 3363 gold (and 76 last hits) in 10 minutes from lane (!) creeps alone.

since 76 last hits make 336 gpm, the avarage gold per minute gain for 1 creep would be something like 4,42. Meaning, that if u want to finish your early game items in the first 10 minutes (about 300 gpm) u should aim for 67 last hits.

Again this is only considering the gold u gain from lane creeps (no hero kills, nor towers, nor neutrals). Since all the "gold per creep"-figures are average values, slight deviations may occur.

What do u guys think? is this anyway near accurate?

EDIT: i totally forgot about the periodic gold one gets per second .... since its like 75 gpm u get passively, this would mean that only 225 gpm from creeps would actually be needed in order to finish ur early game core. Thus only 51 last hits would be required!

L0bstz0r

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » May 1, 2013 6:02am | Report
Your base gold income is 1 every 0.8 second = 75 per minute, or 750 over the 10 minute period, that would leave you needing 2250 to make up the 3K, or about 50 last hits. Minus whatever you bought with your starting gold.

6 melee creeps per minute at an average 43 (38-48) gold each = average 258gpm
2 ranged creeps per minute at an average 48 (43-53) gold each = average 96gpm
0.285 siege creeps per minute at average 72 (66-80) gold each = average 20.5gpm

= average 374.5gpm if you last hit every enemy creep. (minimum ~333, maximum ~417)
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by L0bstz0r » May 1, 2013 6:11am | Report
Sando wrote:

Your base gold income is 1 every 0.8 second = 75 per minute, or 750 over the 10 minute period, that would leave you needing 2250 to make up the 3K, or about 50 last hits. Minus whatever you bought with your starting gold.


just realized this myself.... already edited. Thanks anyway for pointing out!

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by PeachFuzz » May 1, 2013 8:20am | Report
I presume this is for the safelane carry. In my eyes, 40 is the minimum, 50 is good, and 60-70 is excellent. If you don't have kills, the Battle Fury should come at 80 creep kills assuming you bought boots and consumables. Excellent farm would guarantee the Battle Fury at 12min, which is very good indeed.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Doctrflem » May 1, 2013 10:13am | Report
U also have to consider the efficiency per creep wave of last hits, if u have a hero that does very low damage initially like Clinkz or Sniper then u have to time last hits very well and u are at a risk to losing farm to denies.

Usually if I am using a hero that has attack damage of around 60 to 65 I have no problem whatsoever getting all 4 last hits per wave, but if I have a ranged hero with a low damage of <50 I have a hard time controlling the lane.

For most efficient farm some damage items must be invested in early game, and those might need to be subtracted from your calculations.

Not to mention wards... always plan on getting wards or ur just asking to die and lose all that good farm lol

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by SkyStormSpectre » May 1, 2013 10:49am | Report
The supports should be buying the wards.

Outside influence usually ruins a perfect score, such as denies or harassment from the enemy supports (for aggro tri).

But that's pretty much correct.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by L0bstz0r » May 1, 2013 12:39pm | Report
Doctrflem wrote:

U also have to consider the efficiency per creep wave of last hits, if u have a hero that does very low damage initially like Clinkz or Sniper then u have to time last hits very well and u are at a risk to losing farm to denies.

For most efficient farm some damage items must be invested in early game, and those might need to be subtracted from your calculations.



well Clinkz shouldnt have that much of a problem once he gets his W.
but i agree, that last hitting with some heroes may be difficult.
Just keep in mind, that some heroes needs some early game limitations and therefore have a rather low base dmg. Sniper has a really really fast attack animation to make up for that and its more of a practice issue for him. Shadow Fiend comes also to mind, when talking about low base dmg, but we all know how that turns out after a few creep-kills.

With this calculation i dont say, that anything lower than 50 last hits in the first 10 minutes of the game, is unacceptable ---> its more of a short term goal any player (with a hero that needs farm) should aim for. I just wanted to give myself and other players, who are bothered with their last hitting, some kind of measurement-values.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Havendes » May 19, 2013 3:51am | Report
What about if you are pulling and rushed a hand of midas as soon as you could? Or if you were alchemist? ;D

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » May 19, 2013 7:21am | Report
It depends a lot on who you're up against - sometimes you're countered and it's about just getting what you can, e.g. I randomed Night Stalker the other day and ended up mid against Shadow Fiend. I managed a few early denies to keep his damage down, DD rune helped for a while, and a few cheeky LHs with Void, but ultimately I was never going to win that lane. It was just a case of doing what was possible, and not dying or getting harassed off until nightime.

Same that sometimes you do more for your team by going off and ganking, or harassing your opponent off rather than necessarily getting 50+ last hits. It's useful to have targets to aim for, but sometimes you have to accept the situation won't allow it, and making the best of a bad lot.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pu12e » May 29, 2013 12:05pm | Report
Sando wrote:

It depends a lot on who you're up against - sometimes you're countered and it's about just getting what you can, e.g. I randomed Night Stalker the other day and ended up mid against Shadow Fiend. I managed a few early denies to keep his damage down, DD rune helped for a while, and a few cheeky LHs with Void, but ultimately I was never going to win that lane. It was just a case of doing what was possible, and not dying or getting harassed off until nightime.

Same that sometimes you do more for your team by going off and ganking, or harassing your opponent off rather than necessarily getting 50+ last hits. It's useful to have targets to aim for, but sometimes you have to accept the situation won't allow it, and making the best of a bad lot.



This is a great point. Thankyou for adding Value.

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