Tidehunter and... Vanguard?!

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Tidehunter and... Vanguard?!
Quote | PM | +Rep by Lich#107372 » August 17, 2011 8:50pm | Report
Since the first game of Dota 2 streamed, Tidehunter has been picked several times in the tournament. During the streams these mighty fish wielding warriors have obtained the shield known as Vanguard, which brings the question...

Does Valve think Kraken Shell and Vanguard stacking is balanced?

"To protect himself while chasing down and smashing enemies, Tidehunter has a passive: Kraken Shell. This ability reduces all damage from physical attacks by a set number, allowing the Leviathan to wade into combat without fear, ignoring the blows of lesser foes. Kraken Shell also occasionally dispels negative spell effects, making him even more difficult to stop. " - Dota 2 Hero Description

It seems kraken shell is the same or almost the same as in Dota 1, and it is likely that Vanguard will be also the same or close to the current version.

Current Level 4 Kraken Shell ability:
"Reduces damage received by 28 and removes negative buffs every time 600 damage is taken."

Current Vanguard Passive:
"Damage Block - Gives a 70% chance to block 40 damage if the wielder is melee.."

100% chance of blocking 28 damage and 70% chance of blocking 68 damage.

Lich#107372


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Quote | PM | +Rep by LuvLes » August 17, 2011 9:31pm | Report
Quoted:

Since the first game of Dota 2 streamed, Tidehunter has been picked several times in the tournament. During the streams these mighty fish wielding warriors have obtained the shield known as Vanguard, which brings the question...

Does Valve think Kraken Shell and Vanguard stacking is balanced?

"To protect himself while chasing down and smashing enemies, Tidehunter has a passive: Kraken Shell. This ability reduces all damage from physical attacks by a set number, allowing the Leviathan to wade into combat without fear, ignoring the blows of lesser foes. Kraken Shell also occasionally dispels negative spell effects, making him even more difficult to stop. " - Dota 2 Hero Description

It seems kraken shell is the same or almost the same as in Dota 1, and it is likely that Vanguard will be also the same or close to the current version.

Current Level 4 Kraken Shell ability:
"Reduces damage received by 28 and removes negative buffs every time 600 damage is taken."

Current Vanguard Passive:
"Damage Block - Gives a 70% chance to block 40 damage if the wielder is melee.."

100% chance of blocking 28 damage and 70% chance of blocking 68 damage.

IceFrog is in charge of the balance for DOTA2 as he is DOTA Allstars. I can assure you that this is not the case, as he will most likely have reworked a lot of heroes that he couldn't because of the limits within TFT's limitations.

Anyways, he has been played mostly for his stun and slow, not so much for his ability to absorb damage. Besides, 50% to 75% of the damage in DOTA was magic and auto attacks from a carry are hitting for 100+ by the time he picks up Vanguard anyway. By the time he should have his Kraken Shell ability, they should be doing 200-350 damage. I don't see a problem here.


LuvLes
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Quote | PM | +Rep by Sever1ty » August 17, 2011 10:21pm | Report
It's Valve making decisions, they're one of the biggest names in gaming, I doubt they wouldn't consider every last detail in the game. Besides, as mentioned above they hired Icefrog to overlook the entire game, it'll be perfected by day 1.

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Quote | PM | +Rep by PotatisFarfar » August 18, 2011 12:23am | Report
Not like you max Kraken shell any way ^^.

And it wont do anything for you early. Only Removing debuffs.

PotatisFarfar
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Quote | PM | +Rep by Crown#109346 » August 21, 2011 3:20pm | Report
Yes, many heroes have most likely undergone a rework on their mechanics and algorithms, this is probably why we weren't shown the entire DotA hero roster yet.

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Quote | PM | +Rep by JDxD » August 23, 2011 2:37am | Report
Quoted:


Current Vanguard Passive:
"Damage Block - Gives a 70% chance to block 40 damage if the wielder is melee.."



Only if they're melee? Was it like this in Dota as well?

JDxD


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Quote | PM | +Rep by Lich#107372 » August 23, 2011 2:41am | Report
JDxD wrote:



Only if they're melee? Was it like this in Dota as well?


Yes, if the hero is ranged it blocks 20

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Quote | PM | +Rep by Superninja » February 1, 2012 1:32pm | Report
Ingame in tides kraken shell there reads that doesnt stack with other damage blocks but dunno if it got fixed now in some of the latest patches

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Quote | PM | +Rep by Aera#252652 » July 18, 2012 5:14pm | Report
IMO, Tidehunter with Vanguard is still a Go-In-Ravage-Gush-Anchor-Anchor-Anchor-Die hero.

Aera#252652



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Quote | PM | +Rep by Martys » July 22, 2012 5:58am | Report
Just to remind you guys, Vanguard and Kraken Shell do not stack, that means if Vanguard procs the damage is no further reduced, still it's like having both Vanguard and Poor Man's Shield.

Edit: I'm refering to
Quoted:

100% chance of blocking 28 damage and 70% chance of blocking 68 damage.

It's
100% chance of blocking 28 damage and 70% chance of blocking 40 damage.

Martys


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