Ember spirit build

Vlads is a support item! The only situation where it really makes sense on a Core-Hero is if you want to have it really early and push really hard using its multiple Auras.

I agree that Cleave is a really strong source of damage later on, but it is not 100% reliable, because:
The angle from which Ember Spirit attacks druing SoF is random. So it could happen that the cleave hits nothing despite 2 heroes standing next to each other. It still is good ofc, especially with sth like Magnus/Enigma/Dark Seer.

If you want to steamroll through the midgame Desolator + Daedalus is better, because the minusarmor is more effective, the earlier you get it. Also helps push towers and increases your Hardcarries DPS.
I would btw prefer getting crystalis before the desolator, just because crit scales so damn well with SoF.

Have you seen the insane damage cleave on him does?
If you exepct the game to last longet then 30 minutes i would ALWAYS get at least 1 and even rather 2 battle furys. As i stated earlier deso falls off and is a massive waste of money if you dont end the game max 10 minutes after getting it.

Desolator gives -7 Armour on your Target as well as 60 Damage, Crystalis gives 30 Damage a 20% chance to deal 75% extra Damage, Demon Edge gives 46 Damage.

I would recomend getting Desolator first, it does more damage than a Crystalis Crit early on (except against DK with maxed out Dragon's Blood), once you're targetting opponents with about 20 Armour, Crystalis does more damage when it Crits, but gram for gram, Deso is better. Don't beleive me?

DOTO Math Time!!!

In this example, we've got a lvl11 Ember Spirit using Sleight of Fist on a lvl11 Dragon Knight with Dragon's Blood Maxed out. The Ember Spirit has Phase Boots, Drum of Endurance and either Crystalis or Desolator

• DK's Armour == 18.74, therefore DK's Physical Damage taken is 100 - 52% == 48% Damage taken
• At 18.74 - 7 == 11.74 Armour, he takes 100 - 40% == 60% Damage taken
• at lvl 11 Ember has 70.4 Base Daamge, so his total Attack Damage with Phase Boots and Drum of Endurance == 70 + 24 + 9 == 101 (we'l call it 100 though)
• Maxed out Sleight of Fist deals 120 Physical Bonus Damage, which is affected by Armour Reduction, but does not get multiplied by Critical Procs

http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Armour

With a Desolator, damage done to DK with Sleight of Fist:-
== (100 + 120) * 60% == 132 Damage Dealt

With a Crystalis and Critical Hit Proccing, damage done to a DK with Sleight of Fist:-
== (100 * 1.75 + 120) * 48% == 141.6 Damage dealt

It looks like Crystalis is better, BUT this is only IF you get a Crit..and the increase isn't much. Also bear in mind that at lvl11, you'll be dealing with opponents that only have between 1 - 11 Base Armour, so most won't have much higher than 10 Armour when you include Items. Even at level 25 (Stats included), only Terrorblade and Phantom Lancer have more than 20 Base Armour, with Bounty Hunter and Riki having just over 18.

It takes quite a while for Critical Hits to be more effective than Armour Reduction, and consider this, who's going to be getting more than +5 Armour from Items before you can Farm your Desolator and Crystalis?

P.S. If you're going for a Daedalus 1st, always get the Demon Edge before Crystalis, it gives you more overall Damage. Crystalis 1st is fine if you already have another Damage Item though.

WOOO Xyrus bringing the heat with all the maths, nice analysis. I think I'm gonna play Ember now. Tim, I do agree on battlefury being great, I just don't think it's as reliable.

Everyone loves DOTO Math! <}3

I suppose it comes down on being able to capitalise on those windows where Cleave makes the most impact, not to mention, sometimes the fear of getting Cleaved can be pretty effective in luring out Lone Targets...stick together and you get Cleaved, stay apart and you get Picked Off.

sure this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9kphRKdw9Q isnt reliable, but it is still an amazing item on him, much better then on heroes like phantom assasin, juggernaut or void.

desolator is also a good item on him but it is not core. getting it is a risk becouse it hurts your lategame potential HARD.

ember farms quite slowly and his only comeback mechanism is battle fury, so its by far the safest choice and as a result should be the most commonly bought 1st damage item on him.

I hope you know that this triple kill isn't thanks to double Battle Fury and he would do the same if he changed one to Desolator.

Also getting Battle Fury instead of Desolator as 1st item hurts your dmg alot, as it does nearly 0 damage compared to corruption from deso.

Also getting 1st deso is actually boosting your late game potential, as normal people won't allow you to cleave 5 people every sleight and -armor is increasing your single target damage.

It might have done the trick on that Triple Kill, but Ferrari was going Double Divine Rapier (he also had a spare just in case <}3 ). 35% extra Cleave Damage does more than -7 Armour that far into the game. He just saw an opportunity and capatilised on it. I'm not sure how many other Ember players could do that, but if they can, they'll make the Cleave count for more than Minus Armour in those situations.

I know this kind of triplekill is an exeption becouse of the dazzle weave and rapier but the battlefury did a LOT of work here.
If you look carefully you will see that the cleave on the first hit alone dealt half lich's HP and a sixth of lycan's.
The hit on lich destroyed lycan. You cant do this with a deso.

So as i said, yes, deso is better at the moment you buy it, but will fall off and severly delay any comback mechanism and delay one of his biggest strenghts, his power to turtle.

Well, as i said: BFury is fine on Ember.

But Ember peaks in the midgame (Well or maybe really late where you have 1 or 2 Rapiers) so Desolator helps a lot better to kick *** really hard at that point. You also need to think about your team. Desolator helps pushing faster and also helps your real hardcarry dish out more damage in fights.

But as i said, if the early/midgame is going ****ty, just get BFury to farm up more items a lot faster.

I play a lot of ember spirit and if i have a decent start i can win a lot of games with crystalis and desolator, before i can even finish up the daedalus. (speaking of a 4-5k mmr area)

Overall it just depends on lineups and personal playstyle, if Bfury works for you, nothing speaks against stacking them.

EDIT: @Xyrus: i think you're forgetting that not every hero has as much armor as DK so early in the game; also: crystalis costs half as much as Deso and allows you to crit for 500-600 on SoF, which is pretty cost efficient i would say.