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A Discussion about Level 5 Dagon

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Forum » General Discussion » A Discussion about Level 5 Dagon 17 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Fedorable » March 27, 2015 6:52pm | Report
So I've been wondering, is there any hero (or scenario) where making a level 5 dagon actually makes sense? The only times I've ever made a level 5 dagon are when the outcome has already been decided or...

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1175221660

...Whenever I decide to do my worst impression of SingSing.

So... lvl 5 dagon, is it a practical item or just a novelty item?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » March 27, 2015 7:07pm | Report
I personally think it's really bad until the game goes really late. In those situations it becomes invaluable, because an extra 800 damage nuke to burst someone down is crazy important in late game team-fights.

It's probably where I'd aim to go as like a 5th or 6th item on caster type supports in a late game.

As reference, I'd cite people to see the 200 minute C9 versus SFZ in the Starladder qualifiers. There were like a half a dozen level 5 Dagons and it made a visible difference, because it turned both teams into paper pin cushions.

But it's not an item you want to aim into or anything, unless you feel like being flashy. Even on Tinker, I'd only get like a level 3 Dagon before buying utility, if at that much. (But personally I like getting one of your two burst items, then rushing Sheep stick.

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by kkoopman3 » March 27, 2015 7:08pm | Report
I built a level 5 dagon on Necrophos today and got 22 kills. I guess it really depends on the game, but when you're up against a really tanky team level 5 versus level 3 could make the difference in a kill.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » March 27, 2015 8:18pm | Report
IMO dagon 5 sucks, because Ethereal Blade + dagon 1 is better than dagon 5 in every possible way.

I actually really like Dagon 1, I think it's a perfectly legit item to get an early-mid game advantage. But the thing is, Dagon drops off pretty hard and wasting gold on upgrading it does nothing about it. And Eblade is just better.

Upgrading Dagon from lvl 1 to lvl 5 costs 5000 gold. And the only thing you get from it is 300 pure damage equivalent from the active (goes from 300 pure damage at lvl 1 to 600 pure damage at lvl 5).

Buying an Eblade after your Dagon 1 costs 4900 gold. What you get from it is a ~250-400 pure damage active (depends on your hero stats, gets better as the game goes late) AND an amplification of all your hero's nukes by 40%. So if you already have a Dagon 1 it amplified the damage from 300 pure to 420 pure damage. Besides all your other nukes e.g Mana Burn or Reaper's Scythe are amplified as well.
So assuming 300 base damage from EBlade, EBlade after Dagon 1 gives you 420 pure damage equivalent + amplification of your other nukes + a ****ing ton of stats.
Yes because EBlade gives a ton of agility (40 AGI = 5.7 armor) and some strength (10 strength = 190 HP). while Dagon 5 gives LITERALLY NO STATS over Dagon 1. Your Necro wants the HP and armor.

So on your Nyx Assassin or Necrophos or whatever, go Dagon 1 into Eblade, it's just way way better. Only upgrade your Dagon if you have nothing better to do. Besides Eblade builds from Ghost Scepter which is already an useful item.

Only hero I'd ever build a dagon 5 on is Tinker, and even then I'd go Dagon 1 into Eblade, only finishing Dagon 5 if I have some left over gold. I'd even consider going sheep before finishing to upgrade Dagon.
Or on Nyx Assassin if I have nothing better to buy.

But otherwise, Dagon 5 is a horrible item because it's just sooo bad in late game compared to other stuff. That's why on Necrophos or something I'd go Dagon 1 into EBlade, and then sell the Dagon to make space for good late game items. The great part about Eblade is that it's really good in your 6-slot build, while late game Dagon is really really meh. I'd have a Refresher Orb or a Scythe of Vyse over that useless Dagon 5 anyday.

So Dagon 5...either you have no other item at the 33 minute mark because you wasted your gold on upgrading a Dagon and you're useless (If I ever see a Bounty Hunter with that kind of build I'm ****ing reporting him), or you buy it as a late game item (lol) while it's...really terrible in late game compared to sheep/refresher/BKB/whatever. Unless you're Tinker. Way too expensive...and drops off too fast.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » March 27, 2015 11:09pm | Report
Yep. Dagon 1 + Eblade is more efficient than Dagon 5. However, I'd still go Dagon 5 before Eblade on Tinker, just due to mana management. (still go Dagon 1 > utility > Dagon 5 ofc)

Really, everyone knows Dagon upgraded is pretty terrible. But it's fun as hell so who gives a damn? GOGO TEAM DAGON
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by UltraSuperHyper » March 28, 2015 5:30am | Report
Terathiel wrote:

Really, everyone knows Dagon upgraded is pretty terrible. But it's fun as hell so who gives a damn? GOGO TEAM DAGON


My thoughts exactly! As i had said once before (long ago), I would build it on any and every hero :D
Ofc that's only if we are pwning.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » March 28, 2015 6:25am | Report



My thoughts exactly! As i had said once before (long ago), I would build it on any and every hero :D
Ofc that's only if we are pwning.


Need I remind you of the game I built dagon on troll warlord? :D
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Kyphoid returns » March 28, 2015 8:18am | Report
Fedorable wrote:

So I've been wondering, is there any hero (or scenario) where making a level 5 dagon actually makes sense? The only times I've ever made a level 5 dagon are when the outcome has already been decided or...

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1175221660

...Whenever I decide to do my worst impression of SingSing.

So... lvl 5 dagon, is it a practical item or just a novelty item?

Keep on doing this and they will mistake you for me.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by UltraSuperHyper » March 28, 2015 11:42am | Report
Dagon is love dagon is life.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » March 28, 2015 1:19pm | Report
No one likes using Dagon twice in a Teamfight? Believe it or not, some Teamfights in the Mid-Game can easily give you 15 seconds to wait for the Cooldown at lvl5 and use it again. There's also using it in the Teamfight, then having it ready to Blink in and zap someone as they try to run. <}3

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