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Sven vs DK

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Sven vs DK 18 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by AbsolF » September 15, 2013 9:48am | Report
In trying to teach my friend how to play Dota, i've searched a few comparable heroes. As my friend's "main" hero is currently Sven, i searched a hero similar to that, and ended up with Dragon Knight. (originally i also saw CK and Jugg but later ditched the two because they're not that similar)

Both has stun and nuke (Sven's stun+nuke is one while DK's separated)
Both has armor (Sven's is active while DK's is passive)
Both has passive (Sven's is cleave while DK's is armor)
Both has buff type ulti (Sven's is damage buff while DK outright morphs into a dragon)
And both use similar item build. Treads + drum + BKB (though DK can use soul ring better than Sven) into strength extensions.

But before i compare these further, a few questions:
Why is DK competitively picked more than Sven? Probably because DK's more sturdy than Sven but i'm not sure.
Assuming equal skill level, who will win in 1v1 DK vs Sven? (solo mid match for example) Again, probably DK because higher armor but Sven's cleave ignores armor anyway.
Which one is easier to learn, and which one holds the lane better in typical game?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TKH_96 » September 15, 2013 1:20pm | Report
Hmmm... In my opinion DK is picked over Sven for many reasons. First DK can play both mid and safelane farmer. DK also does more without items, with his nuke, stun, and right-click buffs from his ultimate. Sven on the other hand has his nuke/stun but if you don't have much scaling damage you don't do anything else. So DK is more versatile and not as farm dependent. I feel like Sven would be easier to learn but that's just my opinion since basically he has just the one targettable spell and others are basically buffs used in battle.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Peppo_oPaccio » September 15, 2013 1:27pm | Report
First, about the competitive scene, Dragon Knight is picked more often as a mid laner because he's a super tanky early game Hero (compared to the others, I mean) and has good pushing power thanks to his ultimate; he can also flash farm or push the lane with Breathe Fire, and that's the main reason why he's a valid mid. Sven would be a very passive mid laner as he has little to no lane control and, being a melee Hero, no ranged skills like Beastmaster's Wild Axes or Night Stalker's Void would put him in a bad situation.

On the other side, Sven can be played as a roaming support (I like him a lot played this way; too bad he needs a lot of mana and a trilane to be effective) and as a hard carry: he's not popular at the moment, as mid-game carries (Gyro, Lifestealer, maybe Weaver?) are preferred and the are other hard carries (farming Alchemist, Anti-Mage...) whom competitive players are more confident with.

About the other question, I think DK is better for a beginner as he doesn't need many items (as you said, Bottle/ Soul Ring, Drum of Endurance and Black King Bar is enough for a whole match in low level games) and is naturally tanky; your friend could have some problems with mana management (Dragon Breath), but he would have them with Sven's Storm Hammer too. In a solo mid match, DK definitely destroys Sven thanks to his AoE and extra tankyness, unless Sven is very good at denying creeps.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Atlas » September 15, 2013 1:45pm | Report
DK is picked because he is:

A. Tanky and survivable naturally.
B. Ranged (when ultied)
C. A great pusher.

He isn't a hard carry usually, but is just a good mid-laner since he can survive against pretty much anything, and he just has basic utility with his spells.

Sven used to be picked as a carry during Cleave meta not too long ago, but then Daedalus got nerfed and Lifestealer came into power (who counters Sven easily).

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by AngeloBangelo » September 15, 2013 11:08pm | Report
Peppo! Your posts always impress me, as they're normally dead on with how I feel.

DK is a great mid because he is almost impossible to harass out of lane. His stun is lower CD, less mana, and longer duration than svens. It's single target versus AoE, but rarely do you hit more than 2 people with Svens stun anyway. DK can flash farm with breath, and after a teamfight (and he uses his ult) he can clear the jungle much faster than Sven with his ult form still up.

Also, DK is ranged in team fights which is huge. If Sven stuns, and the opponent is force staffed or something, Sven gets kited much more easily than DK does. The last and one of the most important reasons (Which I don't see mentioned yet) is that DK comes with a free Skadi. If the opponents have a Faceless Void (for example) as a carry, versus Dragon Knight, and they both have equal farm... I feel the Dragon Knight will win. He is too tanky for Void to jump on (especially with maxed armor. Void does little damage), and if he goes for squishier targets and DK stays on him, his movespeed/attack speed is horrible.

But as was said above, he's not a LATE LATE game carry... More like a mid-late game carry that excels in mid as a pusher, ganker, and anti-carry.

Edit: I feel that DK is easier. You can just right click in team fights, and because of AoE damage attack, AoE slow, breath of fire, and not able to be kited as easily... Just all around more powerful hero.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hades4u » September 16, 2013 1:02am | Report
Dragon Knight is picked in competitive matches because he's very hard to kill on mid and also farm pretty well with his Q. Also, he's a great option when you run out of mid heroes and you are against Queen of Pain or Outworld Devourer, who are very dominant.

Also, a farmed Dragon Knight is a pain in mid-late game.

As for Sven, I'm not sure why he's not picked, but he would lose a fight against a fed Dragon Knight.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Peppo_oPaccio » September 16, 2013 7:39am | Report

Peppo! Your posts always impress me, as they're normally dead on with how I feel.

Good to know! I agree about your explanation of DK's "ranged version" (which I forgot to talk about), too: he's definitely a good Hero for beginners as he can fill various roles and you almost never feed with him.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Atlas » September 16, 2013 9:54am | Report
Hades4u wrote:

Dragon Knight is picked in competitive matches because he's very hard to kill on mid and also farm pretty well with his Q. Also, he's a great option when you run out of mid heroes and you are against Queen of Pain or Outworld Devourer, who are very dominant.

Also, a farmed Dragon Knight is a pain in mid-late game.

As for Sven, I'm not sure why he's not picked, but he would lose a fight against a fed Dragon Knight.

No, both with equal farm late game, Sven will easily win. DK doesn't get a natural 200% damage boost, resulting in triple damage. DK is way better early and mid game, though.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hades4u » September 16, 2013 11:08am | Report
Atlas wrote:


No, both with equal farm late game, Sven will easily win. DK doesn't get a natural 200% damage boost, resulting in triple damage. DK is way better early and mid game, though.

Dragon Knight can kite Sven and beat him.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » September 16, 2013 11:27am | Report
Hades4u wrote:


Dragon Knight can kite Sven and beat him.


Sven has Warcry.

It all comes down to the item choice in the end.The better item build will win.

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