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7.05 is out

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Forum » General Discussion » 7.05 is out 34 posts - page 1 of 4
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » April 10, 2017 1:23am | Report
http://www.dota2.com/news/updates/28759/

As usual, focusing only on the relevant stuff and ignoring details completely.

Quoted:

Hand of Midas: XP bonus reduced from 2.5x to 1.75x
Hand of Midas: Gold bonus increased from 190 to 220


Important rebalancing. Halves Midas' XP bonus, meaning that it's not worth it to go midas for XP farming anymore.

However increases gold bonus from 145 to 175, which is a really big deal.
(Yes that's the ACTUAL gold bonus, because if you cast it on a 45 gold bounty ranged creep and get 220 gold, the gold produced by midas is only 175)

So Midas GPM got increased from 84 to 105.

Midas GPM got increased by 25%.

Midas used to take 24 minutes to pay for itself, now it takes 19.5 minutes.

Overall, a big midas buff. Now why would you NOT get a <10 midas on late game carries in every game? It'll pay for itself before the 30 min mark on top of giving 30 attack speed.

Quoted:

Tranquil Boots: Requires Wind Lace instead of Ring of Protection
* Tranquil Boots: No longer provides armor
* Tranquil Boots: Active state regeneration increased from 12 to 14
* Tranquil Boots: Active state movement speed increased from 85 to 90
* Tranquil Boots: Disabled state movement speed increased from 55 to 65


A massive nerf to tranquils. Not only do tranquils cost 75 more gold, they no longer give 3 armor.
And you get pretty much nothing in return. 5 MS and a tiny bit more regen, irrelevant.
Honestly every support should go arcanes at that point.

Quoted:

* Alchemist: Acid Spray radius rescaled from 625 to 400/475/550/625
* Alchemist: Chemical Rage cooldown increased from 45 to 55


Alch got rekt. Spray AOE makes his midlane even weaker (as if it wasn't bad enough already), and 10 second ult cooldown is a huge nerf.

Quoted:

* Brewmaster: Earth Primal Unit's Demolish now gives +90/180/270 damage vs buildings (effectively 300% of base damage, instead of 300% of total damage)
* Brewmaster: Earth Primal Unit's BAT reduced from 1.35 to 1.25
* Brewmaster: Level 25 Talent increased from +75 Damage to +120
* Brewmaster: Level 25 Talent changed from +20 Primal Split Unit Armor to +2000 Health to Primal Split Units


Dimony is gonna love this. More push/rat power, more carry potential.

Can you check whether brewlings are counted as heroes for increasing tower armor? Because +9 tower armor would kind of suck.

Quoted:

Bristleback : OSfrog being a ***** with irrelevant eye candy buffs.


THAT's what I want to see :

Level 25 talent changed from +25 Health Regen to Bristleback is no longer disabled by Break.

Get to work Kyfrog.

Seriously who cares about a regen talent on BB when the hero is a natural crimson/abyssal/pipe/heart carrier?

Quoted:

Death Prophet: Strength gain increased from 1.9 to 2.3
Death Prophet: Level 15 Talent increased from -1s Crypt Swarm Cooldown to -1.5s


3.5 second cooldown on Crypt Swarm is actually really good for flashfarming. So is the rest of her talent tree. Very underrated hero.

Quoted:

Earth Spirit: Rolling Boulder slow duration reduced from 1.4/1.6/1.8/2.0 to 0.8/1.2/1.6/2


Get rekt. No more early game imba roaming.

Quoted:

Lifestealer: Open Wounds manacost rescaled from 110 to 140/130/120/110
Lifestealer: Rage attack speed from 50/60/70/80 to 40/50/60/70


Tiny nerf to a popular carry, still just as good.

Quoted:

Lycan: Shapeshift critical strike damage increased from 140/160/180 to 160/180/200%


OK buff, and OSfrog is still encouraging the Vlads/Necrobook/AC zoo build over the armlet build.

Quoted:

Monkey King: Boundless Strike stun duration reduced from 0.5/1/1.5/2.0 to 0.4/0.8/1.2/1.6
Monkey King: Wukong's Command cooldown from 100/85/70 to 130/110/90


Significant nerf. Yep, his stun was OP. And 20 second cooldown on ult is no small deal.

Quoted:

Nature's Prophet: Base damage increased by 6


Lane domination. Bulldog will be proud.

Quoted:

Phantom Lancer: Phantom Rush bonus agility from 6/12/18/24 to 6/14/22/30


Who cares. As long as Diffusal Blade on illusions keeps sucking, the hero will remain terrible.
OSfrog stop being a ***** and make a diffusal 3.

Quoted:

Queen of Pain: Shadow Strike cast range from 450/475/500/525 to 450/500/550/600
Queen of Pain: Shadow Strike damage per tick from 30/40/50/60 to 30/45/60/75


New meta build : max Shadow Strike first.
It deals 500 damage at max level for only 110 mana. The lane domination from Q spam is insane.

Quoted:

Treant Protector: Enabled in Captains Mode


Sure, he got nerfed a bit, but predicting top tier pick.

Quoted:

Viper: Level 15 Talent increased from +14 Agility to +16
Viper: Level 20 Talent changed from +7 Armor to Poison Attack Affects Buildings
Viper: Level 25 Talent changed from Poison Attack Affects Buildings to +20 Armor


Big buff. 20 armor pretty much doubles his EHP and solves his main weakness which is physical damage. Poison Attack on buildings is some pretty impressive pushing power. Legit.

Quoted:

Lina: Level 10 Talent changed from -30s Respawn Time to +125 Cast Range
Lina: Level 15 Talent changed from +125 Cast Range to -30s Respawn Time


Doesn't look like much, but actually a really significant change.

Now if people want to go for 0 respawn time Bloodstone cheese, they need to give up on the +50 damage talent, and play pure caster Lina which is just mediocre.

Instead, now you take the Light Strike Array damage at level 10, and the 50 damage at level 15. This way you can kill creep waves instantly with Q+W and farm efficiently on your carry Lina.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » April 10, 2017 8:07am | Report
So, you're off on a fair number of these;

Midas is... considerably worse on almost every hero. The early fighting requirements are still very much a thing in most games. Also consider Midas nerf as an indirect (and pretty heavy) nerf to Invoker.

Brewmaster changes were pretty much solely to break the rather silly Alacrity interaction with the earth spirit, where you'd kind of delete buildings instantly.

Lifestealer nerfs were actually fairly substantial since the hero's mana pool is complete ***, and you usually only put 1 or 2 points in your E in lieu of maxing Rage. So that extra 20-30 mana per cast adds up very quickly. Additionally, the Rage nerfs themselves, while not massively substantial, very much lessen his ability to siege towers under spell immunity.

And QoP is not going to max Shadow Strike, like ever. Doing so ruins both your ganking AND your flashfarming, especially considering enemies under its effect can be denied, AND it's damage over time which is naturally less effective than burst.

But yeah, thank GOD for the Lina nerfs, it was a little silly. Poor PL is still in the dumpster, but I've dodged TB nerfs for like 3 patches now so I'm not going to make a big fuss about it...
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » April 10, 2017 8:58am | Report
Terathiel wrote:

Midas is... considerably worse on almost every hero. The early fighting requirements are still very much a thing in most games. Also consider Midas nerf as an indirect (and pretty heavy) nerf to Invoker.


OSfrog killed midas for XP farming, and gave a large buff to midas for gold farming. I really wouldn't call it worse. It killed a niche of the item, and made it purely superior for all other heroes who had no use for that niche. Even with the talent trees, only heroes with gamechanging high level talents are level-dependent, and that's not a lot of them.

The only hero this nerfed is Wraith King, since he can't rush his level 3 ult with midas anymore.

Invoker isn't level dependant like he used to be. The days where he needed level 17 + aghs ASAP are long gone. Now aghs gives him 2 second cooldown Invoke whatever his level so he doesn't care about reaching level 18 in any way.
Invoker can just rush aghs or go for any other build he wants, he's not dependant on midas.

You do realize that midas Terrorblade is completely a thing now, right? Illusions get attack speed and it allows him to get manta+skadi faster.
So is midas on any other item-dependant hero, including #4 supports.


Terathiel wrote:

Brewmaster changes were pretty much solely to break the rather silly Alacrity interaction with the earth spirit, where you'd kind of delete buildings instantly.


Fair enough, but the change still makes the hero significantly better on his own. The hero's main weakness has always been his weak late game and his talent tree fixes that pretty well. 120 damage is no joke, it's literally 2 relics.

I'm sure full rat brew with deso/AC is a thing, and if he gets ganked he can just ult and finish the rax. With the 40s respawn time talent this can really be a nightmare to deal with.

If brewlings aren't considered heroes, Deso/AC reduces T3 tower armor to...4.


Terathiel wrote:

Lifestealer nerfs were actually fairly substantial since the hero's mana pool is complete ***, and you usually only put 1 or 2 points in your E in lieu of maxing Rage. So that extra 20-30 mana per cast adds up very quickly. Additionally, the Rage nerfs themselves, while not massively substantial, very much lessen his ability to siege towers under spell immunity.


Sure, but it's still a very minor nerf since the mana change only impacts his very early game (pre-level 8). Besides, there's shrines and raindrops, it's not like there are sustain issues in this kind of patch.
10 less attack speed : sure, he lost half of a 500 gold item and only while in rage. Big deal.

It'll take way more than that to make him less popular.

Terathiel wrote:

And QoP is not going to max Shadow Strike, like ever. Doing so ruins both your ganking AND your flashfarming, especially considering enemies under its effect can be denied, AND it's damage over time which is naturally less effective than burst.


There are matchups like SF, OD, Invoker, TA, Timber, MK, Alch etc where lane domination is more important than anything else. If you can shut down the enemy mid completely the game essentially wins itself.

Getting all the CS in your lane and having the enemy mid get none IS flashfarming.

Sure, burst is better than DoT, but scream isn't a 500 damage nuke on a 4 second cooldown either. And having a 50% permaslow on multiple heroes definitely does NOT ruin her ganking.

Terathiel wrote:

But yeah, thank GOD for the Lina nerfs, it was a little silly.


The very concept of respawn time manipulation is silly.
I thought Meepo and Necrophos were good enough lessons for OSfrog, apparently not.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Masked_Man98 » April 10, 2017 12:17pm | Report
Some stuff that i found interesting (Well as least for me):

* Orb of Venom: Slow duration reduced from 4 to 3
* Orb of Venom: DPS increased from 3 to 5

That means a stronger lane presence for heroes who build it early game e.g. Huskar

* Enchantress: Intelligence growth increased from 2.8 to 3.1

I think OSfrog really likes core Enchantress.

* Lich: Chain Frost slow increased from -30% to -50%
* Lich: Chain Frost slow duration reduced from 4 to 2.5

Damn nerf

And broodmother is buffed again.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » April 10, 2017 12:22pm | Report
1) I'm pretty sure brewlings don't count towards the hero count around towers, because they are not actual heroes - they should be treated exactly like golems, familiars and spirit bear - for example, they don't deal damage to Supernova(which I had to learn the hard way).

I'm not excited though - for Brew, at least the way I used to play him, the patch is a net nerf because of the Midas rebalance(or should I say a straight nerf because no one's getting Midas for GPM). Maybe some kind of semi-carry Brew is good, but I'm not gonna see that because I have other heroes in my sights currently.

2) Actually I don't understand either why doesn't Icefrog just revert Bristleback buffs for the last patches and make Bristleback not breakable.

3)
Quoted:
Get rekt. No more early game imba roaming.

Don't they say it after every patch where ES gets kicked in the nuts? I wonder how much more the hero can take before everyone forgets about him.

Also jokes on you OSFrog, I was so ahead of the meta I deliberately wasn't getting Bloodstone on Lina waiting for the patch so I can now have the extra range on LSA and RoA AND the 50 damage. Get on my level.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » April 11, 2017 12:53am | Report
: nerfed.


: Intended targets


: Collateral damage.


It was for the greater good.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » April 11, 2017 9:21am | Report
Hamstertamer wrote:
: nerfed.


: Intended targets


: Collateral damage.


It was for the greater good.



Anyone interested in/tested the new armor options for Crystal Maiden?

I have a feeling it kinda needs to be an early Medallion of Courage now (and later Solar Crest, maybe sometimes a Buckler. This ofc if it's a game where you need armor. But haven't played her yet and didn't test it, would like to know others opinions.

Ignoring the rest of the predictions/analysis of this regular "deductions from the new patch" because I keep disagreeing with way too much stuff and it's all temporary anyway xD

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » April 11, 2017 9:43am | Report
ChiChi wrote:

Anyone interested in/tested the new armor options for Crystal Maiden?


Ghost Scepter or Veil of Discord.

The other options are pretty underwhelming. Medallion gives her no mana pool and has no synergy, and arcanes/mek on supports is just meh in general unless you can get it early in a full push lineup.

Arcane Boots into Glimmer Cape can be good. Now that tranquils are terrible she'll go arcanes so she has the mana to rush a glimmer.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » April 11, 2017 9:58am | Report
Yea I don't like them specially all that much, but Ghost Scepter doesn't offer any armor past it's active time (0.71 armor from the Agi =/) and some games that might really not be enough - especially because you want that extra slight armor on the early, just to not insta die to everything that right clicks you.

I also really dislike Veil of Discord because it's an item that only marginally increases her survivibility relating to how expensive it is for a #5 and how much it falls off - her main issue is already the fact that she relies exclusively on magical damage that falls off later and is completely blocked by Black King Bar, getting an expensive item that will suffer from the same issue doesn't seem like a good option for me.

Besides, both of those are for CM herself only, with not support option at all, while at least with Medallion/Buckler you can share their actives with the team...

But yea I'm really not happy about buying any of these XD

I think you're right about Ghost at least, might be the only thing really left most of the times.

Let's see, at least she's picked a ****ton on high level games, so I can see it even if I don't have to test it.

Edit: Only now saw the rest of your answer. Yea, Arcane Boots CM might finally be kinda legit. Still I will actually keep going Tranquil Boots with her, she's slow af anyway and got a lot of Wind Laces, and I keep being able to manage her mana pool easily anyway because I buy 90% of times Force Staff.

Edit 2 lol: Quick confirmation with the best CM's from last patch, they were all kinda doing the same thing with the added Hand of Midas (now not so good anymore for her), so I'm gonna stick to this for now but I'm curious to see if the boots indeed change much:
Few examples (and no Nutz because he's meh)
- https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3095509423
- https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3095014807
- https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3091214026

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheSofa » April 11, 2017 3:39pm | Report
What do you think, is Tranquil Boots + Windlace good? You end up with more ms than you did before..

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