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Let's figure out 6.84, shall we?

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Forum » General Discussion » Let's figure out 6.84, shall we? 34 posts - page 3 of 4

Poll Question:


Who's the new broken hero?
Broodmama (Deso/Skadi Brood OP)
TONY (Direct and indirect buffs)
Lina (Right-click/shadowblade Lina, no Aghs)
Outweed Dankstoner
Lone druid (All Hail the King of Rats)
LESHREKT
Support Morphling (Nice Aghs Volvo)
Centaur (Nice Aghs Volvo)
Silencer (SLAHSER'S WAY)
Storm "********" Spirit (That's not a nerf that's useless eye candy)
Troll "balance" Warlord (That's not a nerf that's useless eye candy)
Slark (Did you just buff Slark? Volvo pls.)
Shadow Friend (Did you just buff SF? Volvo pls.)
Crystal maiden!
Other (specify and explain why)
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » May 3, 2015 6:45am | Report
Zeus...I'd much rather play against people who buy stuff like Octarine, Aghs and refresher on him and think he's a carry (lol) than people who play utility Zeus with arcanes/blink, veil, and a euls or sheep who are actually useful. Hero doesn't scale with items, he only needs levels...people have trouble understanding that it seems. Honestly the bad pub builds on Zeus are going to be even worse. It's not like lifesteal on Zeus does anything...because it really doesn't - if he gets focused he's dead anyways, he can't manfight or kite in any way. Besides who cares about his 6-slot inventory 55 minutes into the game with octarine, the hero drops off just as hard at that point anyways. Just buy mek/pipe and you're fine, both items got buffed. And Glimmer Cape. Him having such a high pub winrate is mainly due to people not buying the items that counter him, and if people don't buy the awesome new pipe against him...they deserve it :)

Ursa...his change is interesting, but I'm not sure I like it. Essentially for me what it means is very clear : this hero is no longer a carry.
Ursa is now completely item-independent. He needs a Blink Dagger and nothing else. An Ursa with a blink as only item is essentially exactly as strong as an Ursa 6-slotted with right-click / survivability items.
Ursa doesn't need damage items because his ult gives him the ability to instantly blow up anybody. And Ursa doesn't need survivability items because his ult makes him take no damage.
Does he even need BKB now? Since he blows up people in 1 second anyways and takes no damage during that time...
On the other hand, the hero no longer scales with items so this means that his late game impact is considerably weaker. Since now, no matter what items he buys, he does one thing and one thing only : jump on ONE guy, blow him up instantly, and wait 30 seconds before he can do it again. The old Ursa used to be able to focus several guys for each blink cooldown and push towers really fast, the current one can no longer do that.
He's no longer viable as a position 1 hero. He's more like a position 3 or 4 utility ganker. For me he's essentially Sand King now, a semi-support/jungler who gets an early blink form the jungle and then goes for non-stop roaming.
Since he no longer even needs carry items, Blink Dagger, Force Staff, Scythe of Vyse and similar are probably the best items on him now. Sheepstick sounds really core : same cooldown as his ult, and avoid kiting completely.
So Blink Dagger -> Vladmir's Offering -> Scythe of Vyse with Force Staff and Black King Bar as situational? Refresher Orb honestly isn't that stupid at this point.
ABILITY POWER URSA.

Another interesting thing in this patch : Kill gold got reduced by a lot, so solo killing is way less rewarding. On the other hand assist gold is way higher. Is this the start of the era of greedy supports? A hero like Omniknight who deals no damage and gets no kills but gets a billion assists just by being there...he can now get rich. Omni 75% pub winrate incoming? Generally item-dependent supports who rely on assist gold got buffed a lot. Your Rubick will get his aghs with a good timing, Necrophos is now a 100% legit support since all he needs is blink-aghs with a ghost or pipe and he farms assists like nobody else, Enigma gets even more cash, Silencer support will finally get his refresher before the 45 minute mark, maybe I will even achieve my dream of getting my Shiva's Guard on Disruptor after blink and aghs and land sick ults with the setup slow. Morphling support will also be great. Greed is not dead boys.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Peppo_oPaccio » May 3, 2015 8:33am | Report
Let's be realistic, Troll Warlord was op in the last patch and got really slight nerfs.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by caine1232 » May 3, 2015 8:49am | Report
Hamstertamer wrote:


Necrophos is now a 100% legit support since all he needs is blink-aghs with a ghost or pipe and he farms assists like nobody else, Enigma gets even more cash, Silencer support will finally get his refresher before the 45 minute mark, maybe I will even achieve my dream of getting my Shiva's Guard on Disruptor after blink and aghs and land sick ults with the setup slow. Morphling support will also be great. Greed is not dead boys.


Blink, aghs, ghost and boots costs almost 10k gold, which isn't something a support is getting very fast.
Maybe if you play him as a VERY greedy position 4. If you want a real support necrophos I think you should build arcanes and mek and then get stuff depending on your game.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » May 3, 2015 9:19am | Report
^ He gets a billion assists which gives a lot more gold.
Death Pulse is one of the best farming tools in the game. He can stack farm jungle easily.
And he also gets a ton of kills with Reaper's Scythe.

And let's be honest, all that cores necros do is hog safe lane or mid to buy horribly cost-ineffective items like dagon or Ethereal Blade...a complete waste of gold and space that would be far better used on an actual carry - like what would you better have between a Necro with Dagon/Eblade/blink/Aghs and a Dusa with manta/skadi/bfly. One can kill a single hero that's not too tanky, the other can solo the enemy team. Leave the carrying to the carries and the utility to the position 3 utility heroes where Necro definitely belongs.

Don't take me wrong, I used to love the hell out of core Necro back a few patches...but this was because he was one of the best deathball heroes in the game. Go mid, rush a Mekansm and a Pipe of Insight, group up at the 10-15 min mark, and push. This was killer back then. But now that we're in a ricing patch, I see no point in core necro over another core if you're not running a push strat, other than to waste safe lane farm to buy a Dagon.

@ Peppo : Yep, Icefrog is still Trolling us :)
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KrDotoBestDoto » May 3, 2015 10:06am | Report
Games tend to end faster in 6.84 as far as I've noticed. Lategame items like Octarine are items I don't get to use a lot since I either lose before getting it or win before getting it.

I also think that non-scaling heroes are stronger this patch because of the shorter games.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » May 3, 2015 12:48pm | Report
This is kinda big;

http://dota2.gamepedia.com/May_02,_2015_Patch

So yeah, Glimmer Cape isn't as silly anymore.

Also, whilst I've not gotten to test it, I still think Zeus is a really good holder of Octarine Core. You build like Eul's, into Core, into Sheep/refesher with one more slot for mobility/utility. Skip ags because the upgrade is really bad.

Static Field means Zeus has a damage output at all all stages at the game so long as he can sit there and throw out spells, and the Core gives him longevity in team-fights, which means he throws out more spells, and deals more damage. Yes, if he gets focused, he gets bursted down and dies, but you still have a higher priority farming hero (Because anybody running 1 position Zeus needs to get there brain checked out), who helps with the damage out-put.

Oh and BKB means less in the late game than in the mid-game, because the duration is small compared to the duration of team-fighs.

And the bit around safe lane Necro's farming Dagon/ Ethereal Blade is just bad in general, not what makes Safe lane Necro bad. He just needs to be in a dual or tri core line-up, and giving him farm priority becomes terrifying.

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KrDotoBestDoto » May 3, 2015 1:26pm | Report
In the one game I actually got Octarine because the game went unusually late, it helped a lot on Zeus. After skirmishes and fights if you survive you are low most of the time. With Octarine instead of having to tp base if the urn carrier was down I could just continue pushing and heal up during the push. This was extremely important to get the objectives fast after a successful fight. Also the heal during the fight allowed me to stay at the fight longer and the shorter cooldowns really did it's job against supports.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » May 3, 2015 3:51pm | Report
Why didn't I include Doom? I should have. He's really freaking good now :

- **** rat dota. Rats like Furion are the best Doom food. Pretty much anything that's solo split pushing is an easy solo kill.

- **** Slark. **** Storm Spirit. **** Lina. Even **** Troll Warlord and Axe now that it disables all their passives.

- Ability power carries you say. They won't work if they have no abilities. All those octarine core abusers like Lesh, Zeus, Lina, OD, Invoker etc get shut down completely.

Doom is only weak against heavy right-click lineups. But apparently people now like picking purely magic damage based heroes with a lot of utility, and no true hard carry. Doom really revels in that kind of meta.

I even tried Octarine on Doom. It's kind of legit if you go Aghs/refresher. It's some good HP, you lifesteal from your nukes, but most importantly your Doom cooldown is 75 seconds and your refresher orb cooldown is like 140 seconds. That's a huge deal, now doom is always up when you need one.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by I Have Layers » May 3, 2015 4:03pm | Report
Yeah but Doom only works on one hero.

Doom is useful if there's one hero you need to shut down.

If the enemy team literally has 4 magic damage heroes, you buy BKB and even then...

Veil of Discord got a buff too.

Pipe of Insight is probably going to be picked up much more often.

No, it's Huskar that is the counter-meta this patch. And maybe Slark.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » May 3, 2015 4:10pm | Report
By the way, about Octarine. It left me kina dissapointed so far. Played a game as Lina(don't look at me like that, I randomed her!), got Octarine Core after Eul's and Blink, and it didn't bring anything valuable to the table. I mean, I discharge my level three(non-ASU tho) ulti that deals ****ton of damage, and I get less than 200 health from that. And the cooldown reduction is still not so great... I mean, 5/6 second cd on Q and W and 37 on R are neat, but I could easilt live without them. Shoulda gotten Sheepstick.

Or maybe Octarine Core is not an item for Lina. Her ulti has 50 sec cd anyway, nothing changes if you substract 13 seconds, though cd reduction on W is good. And the lifesteal is kinda meh, you gotta be dishing out [{Zeus]] or Leshrac-level of continious AOE damage to make it work. It's still one of the most popular item on her now according to Dotobuff.

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