Solo-offlane Bane/Lich?

Typically, solo-offlaners go to the offlane to sap xp and maybe get a tiny bit of farm. Though I've been thinking, why not have a solo-offlaner who can screw up the enemy carry's farm? Why not put Lich or Bane, two heroes with the ability to mess up a carry's farm, in the solo offlane. Granted, I've never seen either of these heroes played as cores, but lately I've played a few offlane Lich games (in a dual lane, I'm not sure I could convince folks to let me try this idea out in my tier) and I wondered what if he could get access to the quick levels that solo offlane heroes get? More levels means more points in Sacrifice, which mean less farm for the enemy carry.

Now for solo offlane Bane, I was thinking of a max Enfeeble build to mess up an enemy carry's farm that way. Then, if the safe lane supports leave to go put up wards, roam, stack or feed, you could then use Fiend's Grip to secure a kill on the enemy carry, making it even more difficult from them to recover. Or if one support is babysitting while another leaves the lane, you can pop Nightmare on the babysitter and then ulti the carry.

I still need an opportunity to test these two out in a solo-offlane situation, but on paper, it sounds like it could work against carries who afk farm (like Anti-Mage, Spectre, etc.) since you'll be able to mess up the timing of their items and possibly get a kill or two on them. So what do you guys think? Is there something that I've missed or does this warrant expiriementation?

It is viable. Many supports can go offlane and be played as a core. 2 good heroes for that, like, lich and bane, is a great example. Why it isn't seen much is probably because they can't do that much with money. I guess it can be good if you pick 2 super greedy cores, and you need a offlaner who really doesn't need much, Like a lich or a bane could be viable. But usually those kind of heroes played as a 4 is way enough for them gold and experience wise. You probably won't see that in comps because they can just deal with it easily. Although that for lich, sacrifice will always be a good tool. But once again you can do that in every lanes anyways. But yeah it is a thing!

I like both these heroes offlane, especially Lich. He's my premium choice against really nasty lanes as he only needs to survive to screw their farm/xp up. You can quite happily sit back a long way and not compete, whittle away their xp and steal a few hits with Frost Blast. If their supports leave, their carry is now 1v1 against a Lich with more levels - never a good place to be. Only time you don't want him is against push lanes.

Bane works quite well offlane too, although it's harder going. The main use is against carries with poor base damage - even a level or two of Enfeeble is enough to totally screw their last hitting, even uncontested. You need to manage your mana well, stay safe, although his other powers can help you survive. Ideally, get an early Soul Ring and start slurping brain every 25 seconds...with a few levels it quickly becomes unsustainable for them.

Neither hero is particularly amazing with farm, but they can utilise it. I'd suggest a degree of utility, mobility and support help. If your #3 is helping out, it can compensate well for greedy other supports, junglers, etc.

Solo offlane Lich is actually pretty common. He can farm a quick Mekansm and the hero is pretty level dependent, besides he's definitely a huge annoyance for the enemy carry.
The reason you don't see that much solo offlane Lich is because the hero is generally best played in a dual offlane. Especially in pubs. For example if you dual offlane with a Medusa, not only does your Dusa get safe lane levels of freefarm, but you're also shutting down the enemy carry HARD with two very strong laning heroes. This works with any carry with good lane presence : Weaver, Phantom Assassin, Clinkz, Slark...

Solo offlane Bane has been done recently in competitive. Bane is actually a surprisingly greedy hero : he needs a fast level 6, he needs a Blink Dagger, a mana regen item, and a Black King Bar, and most importantly he has no farming ability whatsoever to get those items. So solo offlane makes perfect sense. In a pub, seriously go for it. If you're up against a dual lane, the lane is likely an easy win.

Lich in offlane is pretty fun as his sacrifice is a big damage to a safe lane (with a tri lane it's even more fun as almost all waves misses xp). also can you make the lane push more to your tower because you send 1 creep less to the fight.

Lich is an okay offlaner because he has high movement speed (especially if you go Tranquil Boots first) and can pull the lane back to his tower with Sacrifice, plus he can farm from a distance with Frost Blast. Pro players usually avoid playing him solo offlane because he doesn't benefit much from farm (SF, Viper or Chen are better options if you need a fast Mek); if you want to disrupt the enemy carry's farm you can simply go dual hard lane, but this doesn't mean he isn't viable as a solo offlaner.

About Bane, I've never tried him in the hard lane because he has no escape mechanism and I'm always afraid he's too squishy, but if you're careful enough you should be able to farm a fast Soul Ring and keep on using Enfeeble on the enemy carry, maybe avoiding ganks with Nightmare. And he actually benefits from farm more than Lich: Blink Dagger, Black King Bar, Aghanim's Scepter are all expensive items that help Bane a lot.

I have never really seen Bane as a solo offlaner, but with Enfeeble and Nightmare i guess he could work against certain heroes. Lich is far more common and personally i hate playing against him, when i go for a carry, since he can alter the creep equilibrium to his advantage.

I dont really think however, that he isnt picked up in competitive matches due to farm being "wasted" on him, but rather because he can easily be outplayed by the supports. If your support can stack/pull 24/7 lich will have a hard time. Without an escape or hard lockdown Lich cant really contest pulls, making him rather weak to setups with good kill potential. Granted, he is decent at harassing (or trading hits) with carries like Antimage or Spectre (which kinda "locks" the supports into the lane). On the other hand, he has no sustain himself, making 2v1 scenarios (unless he outlevels his opponents massively) incredibly hard to deal with.
The trick really is all about "who can deal more dmg in 8 seconds".

Also, as already said, his waveclearing capabilities are rather "meh" (even more so for Bane), so picking up a strong jungle pusher like Chen or Enchantress will result in an early tower kill.

If the enemy team has brains you will be out of exp range the whole time. You can't go too far forward with those heroes, because they are too squishy.
Just one zoning support will be enough to keep you out and the other support can stack the jungle constantly to ensure their carry still gets decent farm.

This is a problem for any Offlaner, and it's why you don't see Bristleback Solo Offlane so much. Against a competent Tri-Lane or even Dual Lane, you'll get Zoned out with almost any Hero.

The benefit to Lich Offlane though, is that this doesn't matter as much as with other Heroes. Thanks to Sacrifice, even if you get Zoned out, you can still safely Deny Creeps from behind your Tower and keep the Lane Pulled in your favour. If Supports leave the Lane, you can even walk up and 1 vs 1 most Safe Laners before their lvl6 with Sacrifice + Frost Blast.

The biggest benefit to Offlane Lich imo, is that you can put him in the Offlane for more Exp and Gold, but still play him as a Position 4 while you have a really greedy Jungler from lvl1, e.g. Enigma, Sand King, Batrider, etc. and get fast Items (e.g. 8:00 Blink Dagger) on them.

I still don't like Offlane Bane though. You can't throw out Enfeebles like you can Frost Blast, although, I suppose he has nowhere else to go if you want him to get the Items he needs. ._.

Has anyone here tried Offlane Oracle? He seems to use bonus levels well, and with Fate's Edict, he seems to be able to trade hits with enemy supports very well, so he's very resistant to non Skywrath Mage harass.


But I do find Lich effective in offlane. As he's quite a chore completely force out due to Sacrifice. Bane is a bit easier, but getting the carry Enfeebled (which is still undispellable) might just make it worth it.